Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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Porandla

-- GreenC 01:03, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An impressive journey, originally located quite far inland, the village moved to the coast, then moved again back inland but more to the northeast. (The first and last both seem to be clear villages on google maps, and there is at the very least a street with that name in the location of the second one.) CMD (talk) 02:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It also had a different name from 2011 before losing all its text in 2022, but seems never to have had any source. PamD 05:40, 25 July 2024 (UTC) expanded 08:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This source supports the statement in the original version of the article, so perhaps we should revert to that and add the source - and choose whichever of the later-added coordinates seems appropriate. PamD 09:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also say it should be reverted to maintain the original intent, but there will also be sources to support the current version of the article, as the new version is literally for another town. The telugu page (te:పోరండ్ల (జగిత్యాల)) has always been about the current (Jagtial) Porandla, as has the associated Wikidata item (wikidata:Q13003257). The original (Ranga Reddy) Porandla is at te:పోరండ్ల (మహేశ్వరం)/wikidata:Q16340753.

If the original wording is restored, the thing to do here would be to revert, split off Jagtial Porandla, disambiguate Ranga Reddy Porandla, and then switch the relevant Wikidata entries.

(As an aside, the one-up division, te:జగిత్యాల గ్రామీణ మండలం is one of the few Jagtial district#Mandals without an en.wiki article.) CMD (talk) 04:15, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've done this now, splitting off Porandla, Jagtial district. If anyone can figure out what the page was about in its second iteration, that may need another split. CMD (talk) 00:44, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CMD: thank you for sorting out these villages! -- GreenC 05:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

EPUB is a good format in 2024; you can even cite Wikipedia with it

Does anyone else ever feel they could be citing EPUBs more if using them for citations wasn't such a pain?

It seems the primary tenor among both publishing houses and editors is that one should just read a PDF if they have to actually cite something with page numbers. This is a shame, since page numbers in the reflowable EPUB format is actually a totally solved problem: in research work, I am usually very happy when the EPUB version of the book I'm reading actually correctly supports this, as EPUBs are the fastest and most flexible format for me to search and navigate in my Calibre library and on my eINK ereader.

Suffice it to say, I have been some spending time figuring out the best way to use EPUBs for work on Wikipedia, and am curious if anyone else would be interested in a how-to guide listing all the tips and tricks. Remsense诉 09:33, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As an author, I'd be super interested in how to generate page numbers (though it's veering off topic for the wiki).

What publishers publish epubs with page numbers? Presumably ones matching the paper/PDF? - David Gerard (talk) 22:40, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes; rather, I've never read an EPUB with page numbers not matching the physical edition. I'm also curious whether editors would enjoy Calibre; its ability to search my entire library has been killer for my research.

The one issue is Calibre actually doesn't make have the option of displaying <page-list>...</page-list> in its reader, so I presently use another reader so I can actually use the pages. On the bright side, I've just posted a feature request on the Calibre issue tracker, so maybe support will be implemented soon and my life will be perfect. Remsense诉 23:09, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do you determine the "size" of a list (or merging / splitting purposes)?

Ok, this may be a silly and redundant question. So, WP:SIZERULE gives good guidelines for when articles should be trimmed or merged. However, WP:SIZE states that readable prose size only includes "the amount of viewable text in the main sections of the article, not including tables, lists, or footer sections." For the purpose of merging lists, and with the removal of the kb limits (which I had previously used to judge list size) on WP:SIZE how do you determine the size of a list (as related to existing guidelines stated on WP:SIZERULE) if you wish to merge or split a page? Historyday01 (talk) 13:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The kb limits on WP:SIZE also applied only to readable prose, nothing has changed in that respect. List splits likely come down to editorial judgement, what best helps a reader. Some lists do still end up breaking other limits like WP:PEIS, but that's not common. CMD (talk) 01:25, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, ok. I suppose that somewhat answers my question. What about list mergers? That also comes down to editorial judgment as well? Historyday01 (talk) 12:35, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It does, keeping in mind WP:NLIST. CMD (talk) 12:51, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks. I'll definitely keep WP:NLIST in mind. I will say that I referred this discussion to another user on here as well in reference to a possible split of the List of black animated characters page. Historyday01 (talk) 15:16, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Low standards for references on the English Wikipedia

Why does the English Wikipedia allow the creation of articles without reliable sources? For example, if you look at the references for "El amor de mi bohío," you will find databases, blogs and other wikis. The same with Mira que eres linda, the sources are blogspot and Brito EcuRed. That's why many editors whose articles are deleted on the Spanish Wikipedia come to create them here, because the requirements for reliable sources are minimal. I don't think this does any good for Wikipedia's reputation. KokuyoKoychi (talk) 22:25, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@KokuyoKoychi, the requirements aren't minimal but enforcement is difficult. Hundreds (or more) articles are created every day. There aren't enough editors to screen each one (although the New Page Patrol makes a valiant effort at doing so). Schazjmd (talk) 23:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposals to increase the requirements for sourcing in new articles have so far failed to receive a consensus. Donald Albury 00:09, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder! Vote closing soon to fill vacancies of the first U4C

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to other languages.

Dear all,

The voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is closing soon. It is open through 10 August 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility. If you are eligible to vote and have not voted in this special election, it is important that you vote now.

Why should you vote? The U4C is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community input into the committee membership is critical to the success of the UCoC.

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

In cooperation with the U4C,

-- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 15:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wayback Machine collection search

Normally it is not possible to full-text search through the Wayback Machine. However, they do make available certain collections for full-text search, such as the US Government docs collection has 403 million pages. The list of collections currently available for searching:

https://web-beta.archive.org/collection-search

This is a beta service. There is currently a bug in the interface sometimes it redirects to the home page. If this happens, go to a collection search that is working (such as the US govt docs link above) and use the pull-down menu to navigate the collections. You can also search via URL such as:

https://web-beta.archive.org/pdf/search/wikipedia

..will search the "pdf" collection (1,317,870,629 PDF files) on the word "wikipedia"

-- GreenC 05:04, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a place to discuss all design choices for Wikipedia?

Is there a place to discuss all things related to visual aspects of Wikipedia? Icons, logo, screen layout, typography?Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 17:28, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:VPT is a good place for general technical questions and bug reports. Got anything specific in mind? –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:07, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The technical village pump is a good place to discuss the implementation details of a design. However to discuss the design itself, this village pump page would be more suitable. isaacl (talk) 21:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ban in Azerbaijani Wikipedia

Hello, I would like to complain about the administrators of the Azerbaijani Wikipedia. The fact is that when I added az:Yenisey (Yenisei) in parentheses to the article its name in the Yenisei language in addition to the Russian term (and of course wrote the source from the 1899 book), I was banned by the Nemoralis administrator. To the question “what Wikipedia rule did I break,” he answered in an arrogant manner, “your account will not be unblocked.” I wrote this message here because I don’t know where to write. I also wrote the message to the Azerbaijani section, but Azerbaijani administrators support each other since for several years in a row these are basically the same people. Please help me in this situation. At least express your opinion, please.

To make it clearer, I write the difference between the articles:

Before:

Yenisey (rus. Енисе́й), (evenk Ионесси "böyük su", xak. Ким, tıva Улуг-Хем "böyük çay", və Ene-Say (Ana-çay), nen. Енся’ ям’

After:

Yenisey (rus. Енисе́й), (evenk Ионесси "böyük su", xak. Ким, tıva Улуг-Хем "böyük çay", və Ene-Say (Ana-çay), nen. Енся’ ям’, q.türk 𐰚𐰢 Kəm^[1])

Thank you; Sebirkhan (talk) 19:21, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Normally the standard reply is enwiki has no powers over azwiki (and azwiki over enwiki). But you could try to find an azwiki admin who is active on enwiki. You could ask them about it here, in a neutral ground, maybe also try to find a neutral person on enwiki not from azwiki, to help moderate the dispute. It seems extreme to ban someone over what you describe so either they are bad amins or there is more to the story. -- GreenC 19:35, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"bad admins" is surprisingly plausible. There are four azwiki admins indefinitely blocked here (Solavirum, Nemoralis, Wertuose, Atakhanli), including the admin who blocked Sebirkhan on azwiki. But Google Translate of the azwiki discussion linked to paints a different picture than an admin cabal supporting each other. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:59, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, this editor appears to have continuously ignored advice regarding using old sources for names in article leads and received a one-month block in response. I don't see any indication of foul play, and I say that as the admin who blocked 2/4 of the az.wiki admins listed above from en.wiki. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 20:22, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However, I do not understand why I cannot add the name of the Yenisei River in the Yenisei language in brackets, while the name of this river in other languages is added at the beginning (Maybe then we should delete all the names and leave only the official one - Russian). Where should I add this name if not in this Wikipedia article? I consider it important for preserving history. After all, I did not come up with this name. But the administrator deleted it and blocked my account and my IP Sebirkhan (talk) 20:35, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As the admin of AzViki, I can say that the user presents the situation differently. The user constantly adds words in the old Azerbaijani language or the old Turkish language to the beginning of the articles, changes the names of the articles. We have repeatedly warned him to use only modern Azerbaijani words, not archaic words. As a result, he was blocked at the very end. And now he allegedly says that he added the word in Yenisei language to the beginning of the article, while he added the version in ancient Turkic language, which is unrelated to the topic. However, the Yenisei language has nothing to do with the ancient Turkic language. And the user does such things many times. The user even once wrote that the word "shogun" is a Turkish word in the Shogun article on AzWiki. Cosmic Bard ^utora! 20:32, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not true because, A regular azwiki user does not have the technical ability to change article titles. Also I do not use Turkish language in Azerbaijani section.

Everything you write is far-fetched, because I have never written in my life that shogun is a Turkish word or comes from a Turkish word. However, thanks to me, the administrators eventually changed the name of the page Syoqun to Şoqun (which is correct from the point of view of the Azerbaijani language and Japanese language, and also others) and this is a fact if you look at the history of the article. Sebirkhan (talk) 20:41, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the edit Cosmic Bard identifies, you added [[Qədim_türk_dili|Əski türkcə]]: 𐱁𐰭𐰆𐰣, /şöŋün/, which would indeed suggest that the origin of shogun is Old Turkic. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 20:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, however (even though this is a word written in dictionaries), I thereby pointed out the inconsistency of using the Russian form Syoqun in the Azerbaijani language, in the end we came to a compromise Şoqun. I was not banned for this reason. The azwiki administrator is simply trying to direct the conversation in a different direction. While not banned for this, specifically I received a message about blocking after changing the Yenisei page and the administrator canceled my edits. Sebirkhan (talk) 20:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

also it was in 2019 Sebirkhan (talk) 21:04, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are not blocked just because of the Yenisei River article. Everyone can do something wrong. A user cannot be blocked for one edit. You are blocked because you keep doing things like this. Before that, you wrote the Dnepr River as "Ozü River" in a article, and I warned you about this, that this river is not called Özü River in any source in the modern Azerbaijani language. I will not comment further on this issue here, because it is not EnViki's issue, but AzViki's issue. Cosmic Bard ^utora! 21:08, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why do use word Dnepr while the official name of this river is Dnipro? Sebirkhan (talk) 21:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ В. В. Радлов, Опыт словаря тюркских наречий, том второй, Санкт-Петербург, 1899 (s. 1202)

[1] В. В. Радлов, Опыт словаря тюркских наречий, том второй, Санкт-Петербург, 1899 (s. 1202)

[1]