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Lead length

I know through previous efforts and discussion the length of the lead was greatly reduced from its previously overly lengthy state. But now I noticed the lead suffers from the reverse and is way too short to summarise the information presented within the article.

See MOS:LEADLENGTH, an article of this length should have a corresponding lead of three or four paragraphs, now there's only two. Zinderboff(talk) 12:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The cut lead text was mostly excessive history, which should not be added back. New paragraphs should be crafted to cover politics, administration, economy, demography, and culture. CMD (talk) 13:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead consists of 5 paragraphs now. I believe this issue has been resolved already. If there are no objections, I'll remove the "lead too short" template. Whizkin (talk) 22:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[[User:Flappiefh] I wanted to ask you if you have time if you wanted to fix ur map about Somaliland where it says Territory claimed but not controlled and update it on par with the current state of the Somali civil war controll map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War Since Somaliland has lost controll of alot of land much more than what your map shows.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gobroon (talk • contribs) 16:12, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huge discrepancy for Somaliland's land area

What is the exact land area of Somaliland? The Somaliland official government website says 137,600 km², the official web portal of the Republic of Somaliland says 176,119 km², our article says 177,000 km², but Google says 284,899 km².

The Somaliland official government website's figure is less than 50% of Google's figure. For a small country, these are BIG differences. What happened? Which source is right? What is the exact land area of this country?

Links:

De facto and de jure 48JCL^TALK 00:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 July 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change status of Somaliland from State to self declared country Saahid Qamaan (talk) 06:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why? The current wording looks fine. Alaexis_¿question? 06:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland's status

frankly speaking this is a neat article on somaliland history,geography and economy but sincerely asking you to recorrect the status of somaliland

currently it says "recognised internationally as de jure part of Somalia" it is better to put only "internationally unrecognized"

thanks 102.218.59.66 (talk) 10:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland's status and disputed area

1: change the status of somaliland from "recognised internationally as de jure part of Somalia" to "self-declared country"

2: and also the disputed area seems to be exaggerated the somaliland gov has near complete presence in sanaag region and western portion of sool region

you need to re-correct that thanks 102.218.59.66 (talk) 10:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland status and the disputed area

1: change the status of somaliland from "recognised internationally as de jure part of Somalia" to "self-declared country"

2: and also the disputed area seems to be exaggerated the somaliland gov has near complete presence in sanaag region including the capital ceerigabo(erigavo) and western portion of sool region (ainabo district and half of hudun districts)

you need to re-correct that thanks Ayanle2001 (talk) 10:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

== Somaliland's contry ==

frankly speaking this is a neat article on somaliland's history, geography,economy,politics and culture but I'm sincerely asking you to re-correct the status of somaliland

currently it says "recognised internationally as de jure part of Somalia" it is better to put only "self-declared country"

thanks. Ayanle2001 (talk) 10:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SOMALILAND IS A COUNTRY NOT STATE

somaliland is not state is a country Mohanet Mursal (talk) 20:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland

Somaliland is a country not state, you have to change it, 2A02:8071:2280:82E0:70A5:7EB7:2F59:25A9 (talk) 07:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These are generally interchangeable words, is there a reason you feel one fits better? CMD (talk) 11:06, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a broad diversity to the English language but what CMD says is true, in this context they mean the same thing. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fix the description of the state

Somaliland is a state within Somalia and there’s no any evidence of it being a republic. This page is misleading and should be corrected by an admin. No single country in the world recognizes it and we need to make the necessary corrections by describing in this page simply as a state within Somalia. A political party doesn’t get to decide a part of a country to be another country simply because of opposing the other party in the country. United Nations decide that. Also, I would like to get the part about the size of the state to be corrected that’s claimed to be 176,120 square kilometers. Please read my references in the links. Recently there’s been a war against the political party in this State by another state within the borders they self claim to be their country called SSKhaayumo, the Somaliland political party SNM was defeated and that state is on the northern part of Somalia and officially now recognized as one of the federal states of Somalia by the Federal Government of Somalia which is the only country the United Nations recognizes in this region. This makes Somalilands claim of being a country null and void. Keeping in mind of the fact that no single member of the United Nations recognizes it, why is it allowed that this page reads misleading description and it’s locked from efforts to make corrections?

SSCKhaatumo defeats Somaliland: Khatumo State#:~:text=Following the capture of several,and Guumays in western Sool.

Somalia recognizes SSCKhaatumo: https://thesomalidigest.com/somali-government-makes-a-strategic-move-by-recognizing-ssc-khaatumo/

https://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2021/Nov/184586/uk_says_will_not_recognize_somaliland_unless_it_agrees_with_somalia_on_statehood.aspx

https://somalilandstandard.com/uk-will-not-recognize-somaliland-unless-somalia-agrees-somalilands-statehood/ Nuure4587 (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

De facto states can exist even in the absence of widespread recognition.

Good point re the area, I've added a tag to the article. Alaexis_¿question? 20:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The tittle should rather read officially a state within Somalia but self claimed independent. Because it’s not official that it’s a country as in no single UN nation recognizes it. So that description is misleading to me and many people. Also the fact that a whole unionist state that defeated this secessionist state recently has emerged from within the borders they claim and that region is called SSCKhaatumo. This state is officially added to the federal states of Somalia by the federal government, I’ve added references in my topic. This state nullifies their claim of the whole region. For now, it would be more fit to update the page to say a state within Somalia that’s self claimed and also correct the size from 176,120 square kilometers to 166,120 square kilometers because in November, the Khaatumo State's forces had driven the Somaliland army out of the entire region of SSC, spanning over an area of about 100,000 sq km, over half of the 176,000-odd sq km that used to be under Somaliland's control. The SSC-Khaatumo administration also began taxation that month.

refrence: https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/01/12/somalilands-unraveling-hastened-by-ethiopia-port-lease-deal/#:~:text=By%20November%2C%20the%20Khaatumo%20State's,also%20began%20taxation%20that%20month.

in this article, you can see the size of Khaatumo state falling within 100,000 square km of the claimed region of Somaliland state.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatumo_State

https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2621587

https://dbpedia.org/page/Khatumo_State

https://hornobserver.com/articles/2415/Khaatumo-State-forces-capture-bases-outside-Laascaanood-as-Somaliland-forces-retreat

https://premium.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/khatumo.htm Nuure4587 (talk) 02:04, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"United Nations decide that." I think you misunderstand the purpose and functions of the United Nations... It explicitly DOES NOT DO THAT. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For a country to be officially recognized it has to be through a collective act of the members of the United Nations. As of now, no single U.N nations recognizes Somaliland state of Somalia to be officially republic. So the description in this page is misleading and should be corrected.

U.N country profile of Somalia that includes Somaliland is 637,657 sq km.

referance: https://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx/_Docs/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=Somalia Nuure4587 (talk) 06:23, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recognition is not dependent on UN recognition because the UN does not recognize states, there is no such "collective act of the members of the United Nations." Who told you this? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update description

The description should rather read officially a state within Somalia but self claimed independent. Because it’s not official that it’s a country as in no single UN nation recognizes it. So that description is misleading to me and many people. Also the fact that a whole unionist state that defeated this secessionist state recently has emerged from within the borders they claim and that region is called SSCKhaatumo. This state is officially added to the federal states of Somalia by the federal government, I’ve added references in my topic. This state nullifies their claim of the whole region. For now, it would be more fit to update the page to say a state within Somalia that’s self claimed and also correct the size from 176,120 square kilometers to 66,120 square kilometers because in November, the Khaatumo State's forces had driven the Somaliland army out of the entire region of SSC, spanning over an area of about 100,000 sq km, over half of the 176,000-odd sq km that used to be under Somaliland's control. The SSC-Khaatumo administration also began taxation that month. in total the UN recognizes a surface area of 637,657 sq km for Somalia as a country and that includes Somaliland. Reference: https://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx/_Docs/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=Somalia

refrence: https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/01/12/somalilands-unraveling-hastened-by-ethiopia-port-lease-deal/#:~:text=By%20November%2C%20the%20Khaatumo%20State's,also%20began%20taxation%20that%20month.

in this article, you can see the size of Khaatumo state of Somalia which is in north within the claimed territory of Somaliland with surface area of 100,000 square km of the claimed region of Somaliland state. https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatumo_State

https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2621587

Somalia recognizes SSCKhaatumo state that stretches on land more than half the size of the territory the secessionist state Somaliland claims: https://thesomalidigest.com/somali-government-makes-a-strategic-move-by-recognizing-ssc-khaatumo/

https://horseedmedia.net/somali-federal-government-recognizes-new-ssc-khatumo-administration-383891

https://somalisignal.com/djibouti-hosts-ssc-khatumo-leader-sparking-new-tensions-with-somaliland/

https://dbpedia.org/page/Khatumo_State

https://hornobserver.com/articles/2415/Khaatumo-State-forces-capture-bases-outside-Laascaanood-as-Somaliland-forces-retreat

https://www.garoweonline.com/en/news/somalia/somalia-ssc-khatumo-warn-somaliland-over-future-invasions

https://premium.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/khatumo.htm Nuure4587 (talk) 02:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the change regarding SSCKhaatumo being requested here? The map already designates a broad area as not controlled. CMD (talk) 05:41, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have provided references showing the recent news updates of the war and liberation forces that defeated this separatist govt of Somaliland state of Somalia. SSCKhaatumo controls the northern part of Somalia which the secessionist state claim and is a surface area of 100,000 sq km. The entire territory Somaliland government claims is 176,000 sq km. This makes it only 76,000 sq km. After the federal government of Somalia has added SSCKhaatumo to its federal states, this territory claim of 176,000 sq km is null. SSCKhaatumo which is an official state of Somalia rules this area of 100,000 sq km. This should be updated and corrected. The land surface area is misleading and the description that this is an official republic country is also incorrect. More than half of this area claimed by the separatist state is now under the rule of an official Somalia state of SSCKhaatumo. Refer to my links I provided as references. Nuure4587 (talk) 06:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We've never been able to get a good figure on actual size in the past. Could you point to an article which has the specific area? 100,000 sounds quite round. CMD (talk) 10:48, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll leave references of articles that mentions clearly Separatist state losing 100,000 sq km to the new state that defeated them and emerged out of the territory they claim. The mentioned surface land size in this Somaliland Wikipedia page says 176,120 sq km. Since the SSCKhaatumo now defeated the secessionist army, they are now in control of 100,000 surface land of this 176,000 sq km. Here, read:

https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/01/12/somalilands-unraveling-hastened-by-ethiopia-port-lease-deal/

https://myafricanmagazine.com/navigating-power-shifts-emergence-of-ssc-khaatumo-administration/

https://hornobserver.com/articles/2415/Khaatumo-State-forces-capture-bases-outside-Laascaanood-as-Somaliland-forces-retreat

lastly in this last article, you can clearly see the districts of Sool, Sanaag and Ayn are part of the SSCKhaatumo which this wikipedia page incorrectly claims it to be Somaliland when using such large land surface area

Read on:

https://premium.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/khatumo.htm

I would like to repeat that SSCKhaatumo is a unionist state that now controls more than half of the land Somaliland is claiming and SSCKhaatumo is an official federal state of Somalia so it would not be part of Somaliland secessionist state and therefore land size need to be reduced here. Nuure4587 (talk) 14:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have adjusted as this source does give a rough area. CMD (talk) 15:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see the update. It still shows 176,120 sq km.

Also, the beginning description should be updated to say that it’s officially a de facto state within Somalia that’s unrecognized internationally. Like the Wikipedia page of Taiwan link:Taiwan

The Taiwan page reads that it’s officially part of the Republic of China because the UN doesn’t recognize it. It would be the same for this secessionist state of Somalia and appropriate to use the same description here for Somaliland and say officially a de facto state within Somalia. Nuure4587 (talk) 16:37, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The update was this one. As for Taiwan, it is the Republic of China, I don't understand this comparison. CMD (talk) 16:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also update the opening description of the page at the very top where it says “ It is located in the southern coast of the Gulf of Aden and bordered by Djibouti to the northwest, Ethiopia to the south and west, and Somalia to the east. Its claimed territory has an area of 176,120 square kilometres (68,000 sq mi),” update the territory size with 76,000 sq km.

As for the comparison with Taiwan, The very top introduction of the Taiwan page which is unrecognized state reads at the beginning introduction that it’s a Republic of China meaning not Republic of Taiwan as it’s not recognized yet. But for the Somaliland page, it reads the Republic of Somaliland instead of Somalia as that’s what it’s still recognized internationally as being part of Somalia. I would update it to say that it’s still part of Somalia officially to not mislead people. Nuure4587 (talk) 21:33, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This other page State of Somaliland gives better and more accurate introduction at the very top of the beginning introduction where it reads “Somaliland, Officially the state of Somaliland” it’s not officially a republic. Get that corrected on this page that read it’s “Officially Republic” as it’s misleading. Nuure4587 (talk) 01:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An article that starts with The unraveling of Somaliland, a US and UK-backed separatist breakaway from northern Somalia, has been expedited by the decision of its president Muse Bihi Abdi to hand over part of its coastal land and sea to landlocked Ethiopia doesn't seem like a neutral source. But probably we don't have any other sources for now. Alaexis_¿question? 19:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This other page State of Somalilandof Somaliland state gives better and more accurate introduction at the very top of the beginning introduction where it reads “Somaliland, Officially the state of Somaliland” it’s not officially a republic. Get that corrected as it’s misleading. Nuure4587 (talk) 22:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]