Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music
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Should musicians having memory lapse in concerts be added as an entire paragraph in their biographies?
[edit]A brief summary of my long paragraphs: Should incidents like musicians having memory lapse in concerts be added to controversy, career or personal life section, i.e. notable as an entire paragraph in their biographies? (As currently, biographies only include long-term memory lapse as a one-sentence description) Also, seeking for GA Nominee Advice. Thanks a lot.
Since the community has not discussed this matter before, I am asking to clarify my confusion: I am currently working on this classical pianist's biography, hoping to improve it to GA status. I just noticed two debates/discussions on its discussion page on whether him having a memory lapse in a 2015 concert should be added to the controversy section. In the first discussion in 2016, the two editors (according to edit history) seemed to have reached agreement that the inclusion may have violated WP:BLP trivial/gossip and it was not kept at last. In the second discussion in 2021, the other two editors didn't reach an agreement on the matter. So now, I am confused and want to know whether the memory lapse incident should be added to the controversy (or career or personal life section, as an entire paragraph) or not, and I want to get it resolved to one step forward meeting GA standards.
I have read some other musicians' biographies concerning memory lapse as references. I notice that although having memory lapse is a usual mistake in classical concerts, only a few musicians having long term (yearly) memory lapse were included as a one setence description in their career/personal life section, not controversy section e.g. Vladimir Horowitz, Anton Rubinstein.
It makes me doubt whether a one-time concert memory lapse is necessary to be included in the controversy section of musician's biography, and whether this may violate WP:BLP. (According to previous replies in teahouse, it seems that this should not be included in musicians’ controversy section) Also, I am wondering if such incident is relevant/has the necessity to be included as an entire paragraph in musicians’ career/personal life section
Also, I would like some additional advice/feedback to improve this article, allowing it to meet GA status. Thank you so much, once again. EleniXDD※Talk 12:03, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Controversy sections generally shouldn't exist at all, which would suggest that if this is to be included it will be included in some other section. However, I don't think we should have a general discussion on if or where such details would be included, since it will be highly context-specific. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Got it, thanks. Other experienced editors at teahouse suggested that I could look at biographies as references (if it has the necessity to be included as other section).
- Currently in Wikipedia's biographies, I observed that only musicians having memory lapse in concerts lasted yearly are listed-- this makes me wonder if there's a general agreement on this kind of incident.
- If I just take other GA or of high quality biographies' as references on quality, is it enough for me to promote it to GA.
- Thanks for the reply, EleniXDD※Talk 14:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi there, I've just committed to reviewing your article, so can speak more about it on the review page.
- The people at the teahouse mean well, but these kinds of situations vary wildly between different pianists, so looking for comparisons may be misleading. If reliable sources are covering something in depth, it should be mentioned. As Nikkimaria says, it should likely not be a section in itself, and should be incorporated into a large narrative of the article. Aza24 (talk) 17:23, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your kind help. Sure, let’s discuss it on the review page. EleniXDD※Talk 17:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Just a thought, if the lapse was especially notable, e.g. the performer suddenly played a different piece or did an amazing improvisation or etc, then I think it warrants inclusion; but rarely as a whole paragraph. Unless of course it is a regular feature of their performances. Again as pointed out, the WP:RSs are key — Iadmc♫talk 05:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your kind help. Sure, let’s discuss it on the review page. EleniXDD※Talk 17:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- The correct answer is that an article should reflect what reliable sources have written about the subject. If there is a good biography written after the incident, what percentage of that biography is devoted to the incident? The article generally should have roughly the same percentage coverage. It's likely that, apart from news-of-the-day commentary, a memory lapse would get very minor coverage which probably means it should not be mentioned in the article. Another way of looking at it is to ask what impact the incident had. Was there a medical examination? Did the incident lead to the cancelation of a concert? Did the audience riot? It's likely that the impact, after a few days of news coverage, was zero. Therefore, it should not be mentioned. Johnuniq (talk) 05:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Mahler infobox
[edit]I've suggested an infobox for Mahler. We are at an impasse at the moment and require further input. Thanks — Iadmc♫talk 15:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Add comments to the talkpage: Talk:Gustav Mahler#Infobox — Iadmc♫talk 15:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'm very pro-infobox, but it seems that most of the active users of this project (and the opera project) are very much against infoboxes. I'm pro because eventually infoboxes will be replaced with information pulled from Wikidata, which will make them easier to use across different language wikis and will be easier to update (in the case of those that have changing information, such as populations). Having witnessed these arguments over time, I'd say it's not worth spending effort to argue. You can create infoboxes for articles you create and I feel that's the best use of your time, rather than modifying existing articles where many editors will disagree. - kosboot (talk) 15:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would disagree - infoboxes are important and useful enough (and basically universal on every other chunk of Wikipedia) that it's worth going through the effort to get past the roadblocks. PianoDan (talk) 16:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the comments guys! I was involved in the RfC over at composers group... I know about the arguments. PianoDan is right: we should keep going despite the effort and resistance— Iadmc♫talk 14:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would disagree - infoboxes are important and useful enough (and basically universal on every other chunk of Wikipedia) that it's worth going through the effort to get past the roadblocks. PianoDan (talk) 16:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'm very pro-infobox, but it seems that most of the active users of this project (and the opera project) are very much against infoboxes. I'm pro because eventually infoboxes will be replaced with information pulled from Wikidata, which will make them easier to use across different language wikis and will be easier to update (in the case of those that have changing information, such as populations). Having witnessed these arguments over time, I'd say it's not worth spending effort to argue. You can create infoboxes for articles you create and I feel that's the best use of your time, rather than modifying existing articles where many editors will disagree. - kosboot (talk) 15:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png)
Deceased editor
[edit]I am sad to report that Hyacinth,a very long-standing editor to articles on this project, has passed away. Condolences should go on his talk page. Graham87 (talk) 08:39, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
In his page, I fixed many of the phrases and made them less argumentative. Still, there's more that needs to be rephrased (especially under the Reception section), as well as citations that need to be added (especially in the introduction and Music section). I can't do all this by myself, so could somebody lend out a helping hand? Thank you.
P.S. My condolences to Graham87, I noticed he was mentioned in the post before me. May he rest in peace. Wikieditor662 (talk) 01:18, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Wikieditor662: I'm still here ... You probably mean Hyacinth ... Graham87 (talk) 15:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, my bad Wikieditor662 (talk) 07:31, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
Issues with Milen Nachev
[edit]This article has multiple issues, but seems notable enough to keep. There are no wikilinks, there are no references, there are no sections or section headers, there are inappropriate quotes, and it appears that the main editor is the subject of the article, which may be a self-promotion issue. Came across it and thought I'd post it here hoping it comes across the right editing team. Shotgunheist 💬 23:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Took a hacksaw to the massive WP:NPOV violations. Still needs a lot of work. PianoDan (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Shotgunheist, nice job spotting this. I added two sources and there seems to be more out there so I agree (re the talk page) that notability is probably not an issue. The self-promotion is pretty bad, but perhaps salvageable thanks to Dan's culling. Aza24 (talk) 22:37, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Just created Classical music lists, a list of lists to help navigate this extensive topic. I probably missed some lists (specially if they don't have "list of" in the title), so please feel free to update the page directly if anything can be improved. Thanks for your help and input! — Gor1995 𝄞 15:41, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Awesome, nice work! Aza24 (talk) 22:36, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Bravo! Narky Blert (talk) 18:33, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
Richard McKay
[edit]Could someone from this WikIProject take a look at Richard McKay? Article was created directly in the mainspace by new account with their first edit, and it has already been tagged with {{Notablity}}
and {{UPE}}
. I'm not sure whether the subject meets WP:NMUSICIAN; so, it would probably be a good idea for someone more experienced in articles about conductors take a look at this to see whether the subject is at least Wikipedia notable. If they are, then perhaps any promotional text can be cleaned up. The article also needs categories. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:03, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree that the article isn't adequately sourced - the Dallas Morning News and Dallas News would seem to qualify in that regard. If anything, it's OVER sourced in places. The tone's not as NPOV as one would hope, but it seems a perfectly cromulent topic for an article.. PianoDan (talk) 14:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
Please see comment on talk page about obscurities in the description of the original "Tonic sol-fa". I spent more than an hour trying to work out how to put this page in Project Music, only to realise that there isn't one. This is really nothing to do with "Classical Music", but might belong to a music theory project, which I have no energy to investigate. Imaginatorium (talk) 08:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- Is this (Talk:WikiProject Music) what you were looking for? Also Talk:WikiProject Music theory — Gor1995 𝄞 11:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)