Talk:Sinhalese people

Why is Tamil a topic of discussion in this page?

This wikpedia article is about Sinhalese people, their culture, their language.

This is not about Tamils or Tamil genetics.

Singh et Al (2023) genetic research points out 3 facts about Sinhalese

1. There is a shared ancestry with Maratha people of Maharashtra, more than there is with Bengal 2. There has been considerable gene flow from West Eurasia 3. Some Sri Lankan Tamil subgroups (STU/Sri Lankan Tamil U.K) are related to Sinhalese.

The 3 highlights are clearly outlined.

The article should remain focused on sinhalese population and their history, not about Tamils.

Sri Lankan tamil has another wikipedia page entry Gabrielasirwatham (talk) 11:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

This is stupid. You can also argue that this is not about Maratha or Maratha genetics, so why are you concentrating on Maratha genetics? Hzh (talk) 13:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

It is to do with nationalism, there is a dislike for Tamils due to past historical conflicts, so nationalist editors want to erase and downplay those links. Metta79 (talk) 13:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with dislike for Tamils

It is about highlighting the focus of the research article's primary links

You want to keep inserting Tamil into everything. Gabrielasirwatham (talk) 04:09, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Tamils are less than 15% of the population and there is a language divide between the two people, together with a religious divide, Hindu Tamils generally marry their own caste and language. So this mass "mixing" of Tamils and Sinhalese is doubtful.

Secondly, all Dravidians were not Tamils nor Tamil speakers. Other coastal populations existed in the region. Some of them like Karava and Salagama were assimilated into the population of Sinhalese.

Why are some Tamil nationalists so obsessed in wanting to claim Sinhalese history? This is not about Tamils. This is about Sinhalese population and the research findings indicating their links with Marathi people, that confirms the linguistic link between those languages and Sinhalese, as opposed to Bengal that was previously thuoght as the origin point of the ancestors of Sinhalese. Gabrielasirwatham (talk) 04:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Because the article states clearly Marathi genes as the primary findings in its highlights. Gabrielasirwatham (talk) 04:10, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TOOL'S ANALYSIS OF SINGH ET AL'S RESEARCH

Singh et al's article was downloaded as PDF from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf

And uploaded to chatpdf.com for AI to analyse and interpret the research findings.

www.chatpdf.com is an AI Tool that can accurately scan the PDF document and highlight important points. This was its conclusion

"1. The study analyzed the genetic data of Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils, revealing a close genetic affinity between the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils, irrespective of their linguistic differences. 2. Genetic analysis indicated a significant genetic homogeneity between the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils, likely due to long-term geographic proximity facilitating substantial gene flow. 3. The research identified traces of common genetic ancestry between the Sinhalese and the Maratha population, suggesting shared roots through fine-grained genetic analysis. 4. Despite linguistic distinctions, the genetic analysis of the Sinhalese population adds a significant chapter to the genetic landscape of South Asia. 5. The study highlighted the presence of excess sharing of smaller genetic segments between the Sinhalese and the Maratha, indicating a deeply rooted common genetic ancestry. 6. While the D statistics test showed non-significant results, the genetic data supported a closer genetic relationship between the Sinhalese and the Maratha population. 7. The genetic analysis of the Sinhalese population provides valuable insights into the population history of Sri Lanka, showcasing a unique genetic heritage. 8. The study emphasized the need for more ancient DNA research and Y chromosomal sequencing to determine migration timelines and further understand the genetic history of the Sinhalese. 9. The genetic homogeneity observed among the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils challenges conventional notions of genetic differentiation based on linguistic affiliations in South Asia. 10. Overall, the research underscores the complex interplay of genetic, linguistic, and historical factors shaping the genetic landscape of the Sinhalese population in Sri Lanka.

The following question was also asked to the AI tool

Q. does this research indicate a higher gene flow to Sinhalese from northern India or southern India?

AI's answer : - The research indicates a higher genetic affinity of the Sinhalese population with North Indian populations rather than South Indian populations. Genetic analysis of the Sinhalese suggests a closer relationship with North Indian populations, supporting the hypothesis of a North Indian origin for the Sri Lankan Sinhalese .

PAGE 3, SINGH ET AL 2023, 4TH PARAGRAPH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf

" However, we have found slightly higher gene flow (but non-significant) from some North and Northwest Indian than the South Indian populations"(Table S2)

Based on the findings stated by Singh Et al i 2023 research, META79 is incorrect stating higher South Indian gene flow to Sinhalese in the genetics section of Sinhalese people.

'THE ARTICLE IN WIKIPEDIA ON SINHALESE STATING THERE WAS HIGHER GENE FLOW FROM SOUTH INDIA TO SINHALESE POPULATION IS INCORRECT. PLEASE CORRECT THE GENETICS SECTION AND THE INTRODUCTORY SECTION TO REFLECT HIGHER GENE FLOW FROM NORTH INDIA

Gabrielasirwatham (talk) 06:53, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you AI? Maybe you can start a discussion in one of the noticeboards or village pumps whether AI-mediated edits are considered acceptable and should be permitted. If it's something that has not been discussed yet, you'd be clearing up something interesting. (Although frankly, from the answers given here by AI, perhaps they are not the best tool to use.) Hzh (talk) 09:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Hzh AI tools are less biased and more reliable than Wikipedia, where 'anyone' can edit and twist things out of context.

Clearly a lot of people here are not native speakers of the English language.

A paragraphs conclusion is found in the last sentence.

"Increased flow of genes from north India" was its conclusion. With a full stop. Casseykay (talk) 23:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

HIGHER NORTH INDIAN GENE FLOW THAN SOUTH INDIAN

PAGE 3, SINGH ET AL 2023, 4TH PARAGRAPH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf

" However, we have found slightly higher gene flow (but non-significant) from some North and Northwest Indian than the South Indian populations"(Table S2) Gabrielasirwatham (talk) 07:13, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

When you choose to ignore the preceding sentence that says "higher gene flow occurred between both the populations from the South than the North Indian populations", you make yourself out to be someone who has no interest in presenting a true view of the paper, just cherry-picking sentences to make untrue statements. Hzh (talk) 09:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Hzh Actually you are the one seriously mistaken. Singh et all was alluding to the previous findings that indicated Higher gene flow from south india, but his team has discovered that the greater flow came from north India. The paper is stating both the previous findings and the latest finding.

Either you don't understand English or you simply are biased.

it is the latest finding of the scientific team you should consider. Casseykay (talk) 21:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think there is much point in arguing when you can't even read and understand what's written. It says "We also calculated D-statistics to infer the direction of gene flow between North vs. South Indian populations models (Yoruba; Sinhalese/STS/STU; X; Y) and obtained results suggesting higher gene flow occurred between both the populations from the South than the North Indian populations". Hzh (talk) 22:22, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Hzh he is quoting the previous research. Read the last sentence of his latest finding of increased flow from north india that Gabriel quoted verbatim. Maratha is not south indian. In English language there can't be contradictions in one paragraph. learn to rightly divide it. The conclusion of latest finding is in the last sentence on the greater flow from north India. Casseykay (talk) 23:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

You don't understand the meaning of the word "we"? Hzh (talk) 23:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Hzh we is referring to his current tea m who analysed past research and present new research of 2023. your focus should be on the conclusion presented in the last sentence. The conclusion of the latest research.

Consult with a native speaker of English if you cannot understand the paragraph in its full context. You can contact the research team.

Until then you can put the new edit to show gene flow from north India north west India and south India and west Eurasia. instead of higher or lower. Let the reader decide.

Also edit the genetic section as well.

giving so much power to one user named metta79 is questionable. Casseykay (talk) 02:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Everyone can now see your issue in reading and comprehension, and there is nothing more to be discussed since it will be a meaningless exchange of insults when you don't understand the text under discussion. A basic level of competence is required to edit Wikipedia, and that you don't have. Hzh (talk) 07:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll just add an explanation if anyone is confused by the wordings of the authors - the study found higher gene flow from South Indian populations, but they also found slightly higher gene flow from some North and Northwest Indian populations. One does not contradict the others, the first one is a general statement about the broader group of South Indian population, the second one refers to certain subgroups of the North and Northwest Indian populations. Hzh (talk) 09:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

To further add, the higher gene flow from South Indian populations was found to be statistically significant, whilst the slightly higher gene flow from some North and Northwest Indian populations was not statistically significant. Metta79 (talk) 09:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello dear admin,

Like to request an update on this article, and hopefully you may update this. This seems like a very divisive article when it comes to genetics.The general sense most of readers probably are getting is that Sinhalese are a people with various genetic flows into them, a kind of mixed origin people, especially the genetic section also mentions South East Asian and West Eurasian gene flow. Rather than purely from Southern India.

For the convenience of readers, could you please amend the introduction to reflect this, rather than just over emphasizing on the south Indian one, but rather, perhaps you may use a more encompassing term such as "Research studies done so far have indicated that Sinhalese have genetic links to mainland Southern Asia and West Eurasia"'.

Rather than overephasis on South India alone, while the article of Singh et al clearly recognizes north, north-west India and West Eurasia.

Then, in the genetics section you may please paste the exact quote findings in the full paragraph from the genetic article. Please also include based on gene samples taken from 9 Sinhalese individuals.

Because, 9 people do not exactly represent every Sinhalese on earth (In my opinion Singh Et al's study still needs further work)

This article is getting severely confusing, on one side the introduction seem to indicate Sinhalese came from south India, but they are an Indo-Aryan people with much of their language and culture great impacted by Prakrit language and culture, that does not originate from southern India and then, Singh Et Al's research says clearly in its highlights about the deep shared ancestry with Maratha people, who are an Indo-Aryan people.

There is a south Indian tribe being mentioned, but again there is no clear conclusion given if those genes flowed out of Sri Lanka into that tribe or from that tribe into those 9 individuals sampled.

Wordings do matter as it can convey multiple meanings, so it does not leave readers confused.

thank you DrAnandaPadmanaban (talk) 06:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Indo-Aryan is a linguistic group, not a homogenous racial or genetic grouping. The original Aryans who entered India (the steppes pastoralists) are closer genetically to modern Europeans than South Asians. So there is really no contradiction between this 2023 genetic study and the linguistic data. The 2023 study does not say the Sinhalese are purely of South Indian origin, and nor does this article. Metta79 (talk) 10:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Removing Content

Can some confirmed user delete the part that says Sinhalese "also known as lion people" part because its misquoted and invalid. Metta69 (talk) 03:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)