Talk:Russians

Russians are not Slavs.

Greetings ! I am not russian but russian speaking person. Contrasting their language with other Slavic languages I found that some words look different and and even Ukrainian share same lexicon with Czech. 2.133.211.65 (talk) 07:55, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Interesting hypothesis, but you are definitely wrong. There are no any doubts between linguists that Russian language is Indo-European language, that belongs to the Slavic language family. The 'lexicon' is not criteria to make such conclusions, especially taking in account the fact that many words in Ukrainian and Czech language have Germanic origin not Slavic (e.g. 'Thank you' - German 'Danke' - Ukrainian 'djákovati'). Also, some words in Russian have Greek origin. So you cannot assume the language family by just comparing the words. In that case you could take Ukrainian 'djákovati' (Germanic origin) and compare with Russian 'spasibo' (Slavic origin) and make a conclusion that Ukrainian is not Slavic language. It is silly, but it makes as much sense as your comment.Interesting hypothesis, but you are definitely wrong. There is no any doubts for between lindquist that Russian language is Indo-European language, that belongs to the Slavic language family. The 'lexicon' is not criteria to make such conclusions, especially taking in account the fact that many words in Ukrainian and Czech language have germanic origin, neither slavic (e.g. 'Thank you' - German 'Danke' - Ukrainian 'djákovati'). Also some words in Russian have greek origin. So you cannot assume the language family by just comparing the words. In that case you could take Ukrainian 'djákovati' (germanic origin) and compare with Russian 'spasibo' (slavic origin) and make a conclusion that Ukrainian is not slavic language. It is silly, but it makes as much sense as your comment. 91.123.65.221 (talk) 23:15, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Essentially a WP:FORUM thread that should have been reverted. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:56, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

As a person from Ukraine I'd question if Russians are really Slavic. This can be completely wrong so please no hate. But I clearly remember from History lessons that Russia is originally named Moscowia and came from Golden Horde. It got renamed as Russia only in October 22, 1721.

"The tsars of Moscow and, later, Russia understood that without an imposing past it was impossible to create a great nation and empire. Therefore it was necessary to glorify their historical roots and even to hijack the history of other nations. So, starting with Ivan the Terrible (1533-1584) the tsars of Moscow applied all their efforts to appropriate the history of Kyivan Rus, its glorious past, and to create an official mythology for the Russian Empire." 185.94.219.13 (talk) 17:24, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Ultimate original research fail 2603:6011:9600:52C0:645E:6895:7583:F219 (talk) 01:52, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Interesting hypothesis, but Wikipedia isn't the place for spreading original research and fringe theories. Summer ^talk 14:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Neutrality of section on Religions

Jews are not mentioned in that section, seemingly because they are not "ethnic Russians". Defining ethnic Russians in a way that excludes Jews seems to be original research based on an idea of ethnicity being determined primarily by a person's "blood" (or genetics). Rsk6400 (talk) 06:59, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2024

Remove total population. It's misleading and unsourced. 193.187.88.197 (talk) 00:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. It looks like all the population numbers are sourced. Please be specific about what you want changed. RudolfRed (talk) 00:53, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Ethnic group ?

Since Ivan Grozny, there have been at least two definitions of Russians: Ethnic Russians and subjects / citizens of the Russian Empire. In Russian there are even two words: русские and another one (российский) derived from "Russia". There is no reason why this article should only be about ethnic Russians. The formula "are an East Slavic ethnic group native to Eastern Europe, who share a common Russian ancestry, culture, and history." is similar to many other articles, but there is no source for it, and it doesn't match the specific Russian history. Rsk6400 (talk) 06:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Undashing: Would you please take part in this discussion that I started two weeks ago before restoring claims that are totally unsourced ? Rsk6400 (talk) 12:19, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@Rsk6400: Other ethnic groups in Russia have their own separate articles e.g. Buryats. No reason to hijack this one and make it all about the "multiculturalism" and deny the existence of the East Slavic core population of Russia, who compose 80% of the total population of the federation. Unless you have an agenda. Then go forward because no one cares and no one will stop you anyway. Swoonfed (talk) 19:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

My edits had nothing to do with any of the things you accused me of. Can you give me a good source for the formula I mentioned in my post of 23 June ? Why should we not mention that "Russians" has two meanings? Russians are the only people I know of having two different words for the ethnicity and the citizenship. If this article is to deal with ethnic Russians only, it should be renamed "Ethnic Russians". Rsk6400 (talk) 07:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

There is a separate article named Ethnic groups in Russia. This article should not be named "Ethnic Russians". That is utterly confusing. Secondly, most people in this world are ignorant i.e. they have little knowledge about geography, history, ethnic groups, cultures, social customs, classes etc. The word "Russian" was synonymous with the word "Slav" for a very long time in the West. I would say it was as such just before 2022 invasion of Ukraine. So, when people think about the word "Russian", they think about the Slavic ethnic group, that are the Russians, who compose the majority of Russia's population.

It is not very hard to grasp the fact that all ethnic groups in Russia are of Russian nationality but not of Russian ethnicity. And this might disappoint you, but people are not searching for Dagestanis or Yakuts when they search the word "Russians". Swoonfed (talk) 09:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

In English, the Russians is also how Россияне — Википедия (wikipedia.org) is translated to. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 09:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

This article was made for the Slavic Russians, whose namesake the federation uses. To omit the sections reserved for the ethnic Russians and make this article a multicultural salad like the article Germans is pointless considering all of the minority ethnic groups in Russia have their own separate articles. So I do not support that.

A point to be noted is that in Russia minority ethnic groups have their own separate identity and culture, which is distinct from the majority Slavic population. Such as the Kalmyks, the Mongolic peoples who are the only Buddhist bunch in Europe. Peoples such as Chechens also do not identify as "Russian", but rather as their own separate identity and culture. The word "ethnic" itself is puzzling. It often refers to people of color. Most readers would have 0 idea about what the supposed "ethnic" Russians are supposed to be. Swoonfed (talk) 10:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

It's sad that you didn't reply to my concerns regarding the missing sourcing for the formula "who share a common Russian ancestry, culture, and history". Also: To restrict this article to ethnic Russians only, we'd need good reasons based on reliable sources. Please make yourself familiar with WP:TPG, WP:RS, and WP:OR.

Russian identity is linked to the justification of the war in Ukraine, therefore WP:GS/RUSUKR applies (see also WP:BROADLY), that means that you are not allowed to edit this article before becoming extended confirmed, while I'm allowed to revert you (Remedies C and D of WP:GS/RUSUKR). Rsk6400 (talk) 09:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

This article was made for the Slavic Russians
We can extend the body with regard to arguments above.

To omit the sections reserved for the ethnic Russians and make this article a multicultural salad like the article Germans is pointless
You don't need to oppose that since nobody has this intention. See the actual argument above. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 10:02, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request 27 June 2024

Revert to revision# 1230356292 from 22 June 2024, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russians&oldid=1230356292

Edits on 23 June 2024 removed Brazil, Germany, United States, and Israel from the Russian Diaspora list, making it appear that no Russians live in those countries.

I see the reasoning above, the editor removed those countries and population numbers as they included "russian jews" and "russian germans" which the editor does not believe belong in the russian ethnic group. However, it is more appropriate to keep these countries and the population number in the list, with the notation of who is included in that population number, so that readers can be informed. Additionally, this is already clarified in the article which states, "A large Russian diaspora (sometimes including Russian-speaking non-Russians), estimated at 25 million people,[41] has developed all over the world, with notable numbers in the United States, Germany, Brazil, and Canada." Making it more misleading that three of the named countries, United States, Germany, and Brazil, are not in the list.

74.218.78.226 (talk) 13:37, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.218.78.226 (talk) 13:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

If we start this article with a certain definition (which I think is wrong), then we have to follow that definition. Rsk6400 (talk) 17:29, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 04:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)